First Question: Warning! Deep Theological Reflection Ahead!

Dear Jonathan,

Greetings. I have a question regarding the sermon notes that you posted today. If I understand you correctly--I might not have--this past Sunday, you preached that the idea that God lacks exhaustive knowledge of the future is un-biblical. (I take it that you have in mind the "Open" view of God?) While I do not wish to drag you into a debate on this point, I would find it helpful if you could provide me with concrete reasons why you hold to this strong claim. In particular, I am wondering if you think that there are exegetical, theological, or perhaps even philosophical reasons to think that the open view is contrary to the Scriptures. Many thanks.

Sincerely,
XXXX


Then I responded with this answer:

Thank you very much for the question.
I certainly had the "Open" view of God's knowledge in mind when writing the sermon.
There are many exegetical reasons to believe the Open View to be error including:
Isaiah 41:21-29- Part of God's "Godness" is dependent upon Him knowing what the future holds and being able to declare exactly what will happen. (See also Isaiah 45:18-25 and 46:9). There is also the issue of Psalm 139 etc. where God is said to have very specific foreknowledge (David's words before they are spoken, his days before they are lived etc) that the "Open" view could not explain. There are many New Testament texts where Jesus makes specific predictions about what will happen in the future- John 13:19. Jesus predicts Peter will deny Him 3 times (not 2, not 4, not 15, but 3)- John 13:38 and 18:19-27. Jesus predicts the kind of death Peter will die John 21:18-19.

The theological reasons would simply be the understanding of these and other texts to teach that God has exhaustive divine foreknowledge and that that type of knowledge is inconsistent with the belief that God doesn't know the actual decisions of His free creatures (even though in the Open view He may know all future possibilities). I would understand the "repentance" texts and the God "changing His mind" texts as anthropomorphic (this word means "attributing human characteristics to God in order to communicate some other truth about God"- for example when the Bible talks about God's arm, or hand) because some of them taken literally would imply a lack of knowledge of present realities (Genesis 22:1-19- In this text God is said to only know Abraham's heart at the point where he raises the knife), and they seem to be much less clear than the exhaustive knowledge texts.

Philosophical reasons would be the Open view's problem with the doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture, that is, how could God ensure that the writings of the Bible were exactly what He wanted under this view? Also, how could God ensure that Christ's death would occur exactly as it did?

I know this is oversimplified and short, but I figure that's enough to get the dialogue going.

I appreciate you asking the question.

For reading I would recommend (if you are unaware of the relevant books) God's Lesser Glory by Bruce Ware (where I got most of my Scripture refs). No Other God by John Frame, Beyond the Bounds eds. Piper, and Taylor. I have read (some of) Most Moved Mover by Pinnock, God of the Possible by Boyd, and Is God to Blame? by Boyd on the Open side.

In Christ,

Jonathan

Here was the reply

Dear Jonathan,

Thanks so much for taking time to respond to my question. I have been reading and thinking about these issues for many years, although I have not had the opportunity to do a really in-depth study of the issues. I have worries on both sides. For one thing, I am not convinced that proponents of Open Theism really understand the classical doctrines of impassibility and immutability that they claim to be rejecting. I believe that the classical doctrines allow for responsiveness on God's part even while maintaining that God eternally has exhaustive (fore)knowledge. On the other side, I get worried when classical theists throw around the idea of divine sovereignty as if just mentioning this fact conclusively ends the debate. There seems to be a tendency for classical theists to miss the fact that God could have sovereignly chosen not to micromanage human behavior. Also, unless you are going to go whole hog supralapsarian, the problem of evil seems to be a particularly potent liability for the classical theist position--at least as far as I can tell.

Thanks again for your helpful response.

Sincerely,
XXXX


To which I responded

Thanks for your response.
I agree that some Open proponents may not understand impassibility or immutability, but I think one of the main problems with this view is that they have not thought it all the way through to the end. There are just too many doctrines that are called into question when holding an Open view of God's knowledge and interaction with creatures. They truly believe in libertarian freewill, while compatibilistic freedom is a much more biblical position (Gen 50:20, Acts 2:23, 4:2-28, Phil 2:12-13 etc.). I would much rather err on the side God's freedom than man's freedom.
The debate is certainly more difficult than most people know, and as I've studied the Open view, I have seen that their position is stronger than I thought, but I still am not persuaded. Another problem is the direction that some of the proponents are naturally drifting. John Sanders for instance says that Christ's intention to die on the cross was not set until the garden of Gethsemane. Here is the relevant citation.
As far as God responding to His people, and having real emotional responses (in accord with His nature as a lover of good, hater of evil, comforter of the downtrodden etc.), I don't see God's divine sovereignty, exhaustive knowledge, impassibility and immutability as necessarily contradictory to these activities of God.
Thanks again,
In Christ,
Jonathan

Disclaimer: I realize that this dialogue assumes a basic knowledge of these issues. For more information on the "Open" view of God also known as "Open Theism" please read this article on Wikipedia.

If anyone has any questions please let me know.

Jonathan

Snake Bit

I have heard people respond about the two tragedies that have hit our church in many ways. One such instance that I heard of is someone referring to our church as being “snake bit”. The phrase “snake bit” refers to being cursed or unlucky. Not to be judgmental but this phrase demonstrates a small view of God. My two staff members mean the world to me. They are my brothers in arms. Donny is one of the greatest fathers I have ever known and I have had to watch him bear the loss of his daughter. Scott loved his wife more than anyone I know and I cannot bear to think about the pain he is experiencing and will experience in the coming days. I have been forever changed by these events. It is an odd thing to be both in the middle of the grief and also in another sense watching it from the outside. It is hard to explain the wounds that have been inflicted to my soul through watching my brothers suffer. God draws for us a much more crooked path than I ever imagined. This is not the carefree Christian life that I expected but it is the one that God has graciously given me. If I could not stand on the rock hard foundation of the sovereignty of God I think I would go insane. Is Wyatt snake bit, cursed, or unlucky? I guess that all depends on how big your God is. I guess in one sense we have all been snake bit. The serpent in the garden struck us hard and the suffering is still being experienced through death, sin, and all matter of pain. But, we serve a God that brought his heel down firmly on the snake’s head and redeemed us from the bite. On the cross Christ redeemed both our sin and our pain. Me, Donny, Scott, and Wyatt believe in a God who is working out his plan according to his good and perfect will. Our loss is substantial and our pain is very real, but our God is big. Is there any other type of God worth worshiping? Though he slays Wyatt, yet we hope in Him (Job 13:15). Do you?

Outline of My Sermon on Job 1:1-2:10

This is a sermon I preached at Wyatt Baptist Church last Sunday night. I'll post the second part next week sometime.

Trusting God in the Midst of Suffering Part 1

I. God’s sovereignty over all things:

There are some who say that God does not know what will happen to us, and that He is just as surprised and upset by what befalls us as we are. The intentions of this teaching are good. They seek to get God off the hook for allowing evil to come into our lives. Unfortunately it is simply not what the Bible teaches.

This is not helpful. If it were biblical, that would be one thing, but this idea is neither biblical, nor is it true.


1.God is sovereign over Satan as we see in verses 6-12. God has a leash. God is so much sovereign over Satan that Satan’s work is attributed to God.
a. We must not say that God does evil because the Bible says God is not the author of evil (I John 1:5, Genesis 18:25). He does not sin. (relevant texts: I Sam 2:6)
b. We must however affirm that God is completely sovereign over Satan. Satan does not move an inch without God’s permissive providence. God could end Satan by simply willing it to happen, but God has His good and sovereign purposes for allowing Him to remain for a time.
2. God is sovereign over sin, verses 14-17- Chaldeans in an unjust and unprovoked manner decimated Job’s property.
a. Again, God does not make people sin (James 1:13), but the Bible teaches that God uses the evil intentions of men for His great purposes (Gen 50:20, Acts 2:23, 4:27-28).
b. God’s sovereignty over sin does not negate our responsibility to God to not sin.
c. Though He does not sin, He accomplishes His purposes by restraining and permitting sin. (Romans 1:21-27). Picture it like a flood gate, God does not have to restrain sin, and Romans 1 even says that God can judge people by turning them over to their own desires. In other words, right now, God is restraining you and me from becoming the worst possible sinners that we could be. If He were to let us go, there would be no limit to the depths that we would sink. If God ceased to restrain us, we would dive into a spiral of depravity.
i. Example of Sabeans and Chaldeans- they were a mean group of people sitting around this day deciding whether to go kick some kitties or go decimate Job’s property. God restrained them from kicking the kitties and they went and decimated Job’s property. So these men had any number of options about what to do that day, and God ruled out the other possibilities that they could have done and left attacking Job’s property as the only one possible.
ii. Example of Christ- God restrained some courses of action that could have been taken not resulting in the death of Christ, and permitted the ones that would end up with Christ crucified.
3.God is sovereign over the natural order as in verses 18-19.
a.God is sovereign over the physical world- Psalm 135:6-7, Proverbs 16:33, Matt 6:25-30
b. God is sovereign over animals- II Kings 2:23-24,
c. God is sovereign over weather and catastrophes. Mark 4:35-41


Since God is sovereign over all of these things we should take heart. Believing that God is sovereign and that we can trust Him is massively helpful in living your daily lives.

We will learn more about how we ought to respond to this truth next week.

New Milestone- 5000 Hits (Officially)

I recently put a hit counter on the site just to know how many people have visited the site. Since the 17th we have had almost 5000 hits with 1100 unique visitors. I'm sure we have more like 25000 hits, but I only recently began the count. Who will be the 5000th hit? It should happen any minute now.

An Excellent Sermon by Jordan Thomas

Here is a sermon preached by Jordan Thomas on November 9th, one week after Jill's accident. The text is Romans 8:1-11. There is something wrong with the video right now, but when he "reads" the text he is actually quoting it. If you were going to memorize one chapter of Scripture I would recommend that it be Romans 8, it is probably the most "complete" (it shares the gospel clearly and outlines the whole story of redemption from beginning to end) chapter in the Bible.

Email Questions

I would prefer that you email me privately with questions and I will either respond directly to you or on the blog. My email address is jonathandbaird(at)gmail.com. I didn't want to put a hot link on here because there are bots that can capture my email address and I would get a ton of spam.

International Outreach at Home

Our church is involved in a great program that pairs host families with international students from SAU. Mark and Vicki Harmon are hosting an international student in their home from Africa, and through that relationship our church has been able to participate in this program at SAU. During the holidays, many of the international students are unable to go home and so they are left on campus by themselves. Host families volunteer to take them in and allow them to be a part of their holiday traditions. We have about 15 international students who are being hosted by families in our church. I am so glad that we have a church family who is concerned with showing Christ's love to the nations through going, sending, praying, and (in this case) welcoming.

What are you or your church doing to reach out to people across the world? Think of opportunities like this that may be in your back yard.

A quick update on Scott:

I have been able to spend some time with Scott over the past few days and he is still doing as well as could be expected. Sunday night I was honored to be able to preach in his presence at Wyatt. Last night he came to our church wide Thanksgiving feast where we introduced the international students and host families.

I know he still covets your prayer, and specifically you can pray for his parents as they continue to prepare to move down to El Dorado. They will need to sell their house soon, and also Scott's dad is searching for a job in the El Dorado area. If anyone knows someone looking for a house in the Greenbrier area or knows of a job in El Dorado (or surrounding areas) please contact me and I'll pass the information along. Bro. Charles is a very talented man (the apple didn't fall far from the tree) and has experience in accounting, fund raising and was the President of Central Baptist College in Conway for many years. They didn't ask me to put a commercial up for this, but I thought it was incredibly appropriate.

I also wanted to thank you all for continuing to read this blog and I wanted to welcome any suggestions for how it might be done better. Many of you have asked for specific information and please know that I take all suggestions/ questions into consideration.

I know many of you are still struggling and I would like to open up the dialogue to any theological questions that you may have. I know in times of tragedy there are questions about God's goodness and sovereignty and I've tried to address those issues, but I know that there may be more. Your feedback is very important. Chances are, if you have a question, there are many others who have the same one.

Do Hard Things

This is kind of piggy-backing off of what Adam said below.

In addition to committing yourself to a rock solid resolve and consistency, you should also take this opportunity to do some of the things that you have been putting off. Have that difficult conversation with your spouse that you have been dreading for months (or years). If you are an unbeliever, consider the claims of Christ and call out to Him in repentance and faith. If you have been "dating" the church and have not joined a group of believers who will keep you accountable and help you to grow, find a good church and join them. Confess your sins to a trusted friend who will help you be more accountable and will help you work through your failures.

Some of the most convicting reading I have ever done is Jonathan Edwards resolutions found here.

A Long Obedience in the Same Direction

I have a book in my library entitled “A Long Obedience in the Same Direction” by Eugene Peterson. I have to admit that I have never gotten around to reading it but I have always loved the title. The blurb on the back of the book says:

“In an age of thirty-second commercials, thirty-page abridgements and instant banking, it is not difficult to get a person interested in the gospel. It is terrifically difficult to sustain and interest. What we need is not another prescription for quick success, but encouragement to persevere as disciples and pilgrims. Above all, we need to learn to pursue a long obedience in the same direction.”

Jill’s death has challenged many of us in our walk with God. As the wound was fresh many commitments were made concerning bible study, prayer, marriages, discipleship, etc. My question is, how are we doing now that routine life has begun to dull the sting of our great loss? Have our commitments begun to waiver yet? Have you begun to take your focus off of Christ and put it back on other things? I know in my life the fight for a Christ focused life has gotten more difficult each day.

One thing I noticed while reading Jill’s journal is that her amazing relationship with Christ was not made through earth shattering spiritual experiences. It was made through a simple consistent walk with Christ. Jill understood that her walk with Christ was not made by huge sweeping New Years resolution like commitments but rather a long obedience in one direction. She set her sights on Christ anew everyday. As time goes by and God continues to heal his people we need to transfer the reliance of our walks with Christ from the pain of Jill’s death to just a simple obedience rooted in the simple fact that God is God and he deserves our lives. Let’s continue to look freshly upon Christ each new day.

Mark Driscoll on Serving Your Spouse

I'm in Dallas at the Song of Solomon Conference. Last night, Mark Driscoll talked about how he prays that he will outlive his wife. This sounded really weird at first, but then he began to explain. He said that he wants to grow old with his wife, serve her until she dies and then preach her funeral so that he will have the privilege to say wonderful things about his wife in front of their church. He quoted Ecclesiastes when it says that "the end of a thing is better than it's beginning" and asked us what our funeral would be like because that is what we are preparing for.

I had the privilege to be a part of Jill's funeral, and it was not sad, because Jill had been such a servant. We didn't have to search very hard at all to find good things to say about Jill. Seeing Scott's joy in talking about how wonderful his wife was, is one of the most encouraging things I have the privilege to hear.

I have a question for you. Do you serve your spouse in such a way that your funeral will not be sad, but will reflect the great joy that you gave your spouse and those around you?